Super-smart like, practically genius level but his wisdom- he had no wisdom at all. You-know he, he screwed up a lot. Yeah. A knowledgeable squirt. I-mean he knew he had a lot of kno-- knowledge in him but um, you-know he 's too into that and wasting his life away.

And Tom says, "Oh Ma," he said, "I traded a pen-knife to- to George-J," he said, "For- for the billy-goat." Well my mother says, "You're not keeping it here." She says, "That stinking little thing," she says "You get it out of here!" You-know?

Speaker: Yeah. But the only way you could get your paper- Interviewer: Was by sticking around? Speaker: Just stick around for the year. And ah third year was a repeat of the second year. (Laughs) Interviewer: So you paid tuition to get- Speaker: And we paid tuition- full tuition to- basically for this stinking piece of paper.

I don't have to keep up with the Jones. I was never that type where just because you have it, I have to have it, okay. I'm not- I'm not suffering, okay. I don't have to have a new vehicle every stinking year. If you don't like what I'm driving, leave me alone.

... and when West-Nile hit, they were gone. There was no jays here whatsoever and I thought, "Oh geez, that's what happened to them." That's why we don't have any because they- they were- their population was decimated by the stinking virus. Well n-- nothing last year, the year be-- okay, when it first hit, sure enough I guess it was just a week ago, looked out the back window, sunny day, was three jays in the backyard and I says- I said, "Ah they're back," I says, "Oh- oh goody.

Speaker: Oh yeah, we used to have fun with horse- I used to- I used to have a horse that I rode, and uh, I could hitch up to the, what they called a stoneboat, which- have you heard of a stoneboat?

Oh yeah, very much so. Very much so. Uh, oh he had some beautiful horses but uh, this one I had was a pretty- pretty old nag, but she sure was- she was great in the stoneboat, great to ride, she never balked at all, but he had some pretty uh- I guess he had six horses and uh, some of them were really- oh I 've forgotten the names uh, not the names of the uh- the type of an-- the breed.

Speaker: But I had what was called a stoneboat. Interviewer: Okay. Speaker: That you use the horse. And the stoneboat was a- a piece of steel perhaps twice as big as this table.

Interviewer: What was your school-life like, in- growing up in Toronto, was- were the teachers very strict, or? Speaker: Yeah back then, it was, ah yeah they got the strap and Interviewer: really the strap, that something Speaker: oh yeah, you got- you got the strap, corporal punishment was a normal, every day thing

Speaker: No. And I- this is another thing I can remember one of the, it was one of the boys was acting up and the teacher sent me to the principal's office to get the strap, 'cause he was going to be strapped and I thought, "I 'm not going to get that strap." And so I went and I waited around and waited around outside the office and just sort-of walked back and forth and came back and said, "The principal wasn 't there, I couldn 't get the strap." Interviewer: And what did the teacher say? Speaker: She said, "Well, we 'll get it later." So I don 't know if I ever got it later, but I was bound I wasn 't going to get him that strap. So you could fool the teachers then. But having two brothers, I thought, "Well gee-whiz, they 'd kill me if I ever got the strap for them!" No, I didn 't get the strap for him.

Speaker: No. And I- this is another thing I can remember one of the, it was one of the boys was acting up and the teacher sent me to the principal's office to get the strap, 'cause he was going to be strapped and I thought, "I 'm not going to get that strap." And so I went and I waited around and waited around outside the office and just sort-of walked back and forth and came back and said, "The principal wasn 't there, I couldn 't get the strap." Interviewer: And what did the teacher say? Speaker: She said, "Well, we 'll get it later." So I don 't know if I ever got it later, but I was bound I wasn 't going to get him that strap. So you could fool the teachers then. But having two brothers, I thought, "Well gee-whiz, they 'd kill me if I ever got the strap for them!" No, I didn 't get the strap for him.

Interviewer: ... did people get in some trouble there too? Speaker: Oh yeah, that was the- used to be uh, uh- they used to be able to strap you on the hand, so it was no- no problem, and if you pulled your hand away, you got two for one. (laughing)

Well that doesn 't work 'cause they don 't- they don 't listen, they don 't care. Like I 'm not saying they should bring back the strap and all-of-that and mean I- ... Well some of them- some of them deserve something you-know ...

Interviewer: What would happen if you did something bad? Speaker: Um, well it was still in the time of- of, ah, school-strapping but that didn 't happen, very, very rarely.

Interviewer: What would happen if you did something bad? Speaker: Um, well it was still in the time of- of, ah, school-strapping but that didn 't happen, very, very rarely.

Oh yeah we got the strap or- I never got the strap though I did get my hand put behind my back because I was a left hander and they changed me to right, and that 's why I didn 't like school.

And ah, I personally, ah- I know a lot of people don 't agree with me, that I feel that they should bring the strap back into the school. ... Because the kids 'd think twice before they 'd do things.

My grandmother 's a principal ah school teacher in Pickering and I remember she used to give the strap. Oh yeah.

Interviewer: W-- you would have to get sent to the principal first? Speaker Yup. You 'd probably get a warning then if you got sent back the second time was when you got the strap.

Interviewer: Did you have- what- in school, schools were different then. Had the strap and things like that. Speaker: Oh yeah, got- yeah there was the strap. There was ah- also played um, marching tunes on a- on a victrola in the hallway when you march in from- into class in the morning in from recess, in at noon.